Hey Bob or anyone with good input,

Where could I get a crash course in pistols, or offer me one here if you have the time.  I'm looking to get my license to carry and I know only about caliber sizes and brands, but I don't know much about the performance and costs of pistols.

Thanks.

Bob knows more about which would be better for carry and whatnot.  But as far as handling you could always go to a store (On Target) and just ask to hold a few different brands.

The reason I picked the XD was because I shot mikes glock and bobs XD when I was trying to decide between the two.  Would be nice if the store would let you take it out and shoot before you buy, but in a perfect world...

Stick wrote on Jan 21^st, 2008 at 5:58pm:

Hey Bob or anyone with good input, Where could I get a crash course in pistols, or offer me one here if you have the time.  I'm looking to get my license to carry and I know only about caliber sizes and brands, but I don't know much about the performance and costs of pistols. Thanks.

Sorry it took me so long to get around to this thread.  I wanted to offer a decent reply and haven't had the chance to do it.  Believe it or not, I've been doing real, actual work during the day (shut it, Spanky!) and haven't had much time to lurk on the forum the last two weeks.

What kind of "pistol course" are you looking for?  Do you just want to send some rounds downrange to get the feel for a semi-auto, or are you looking for tactical training?  CCW training?

If you just want to familiarize yourself with the safety and operation of pistols, I'd be more than happy to meet you at the range.  I've got the following pistols...

Springfield XD .40 Service - This is a service-sized pistol with a 4" barrel.  For the moment, it's my primary (and only) CCW pistol.  It's a single-action-only platform.

Colt .38 Special Police Positive - This is an older .38 six-shot revolver.  She's a real beauty, but I'm not real fond of revolvers for concealed carry.  It's a ton of fun to shoot, though!  It's a typical double/single-action revolver.  You can cock the hammer for a single action trigger pull, or simply pull the trigger for a double-action shot.

Walther P.38 AC43 - This is a semi-automatic pistol chambered in 9mm from WW2.  Although it rarely gets shot, I wouldn't mind bringing it to the range and putting a few rounds through it.  If nothing else, it will give you an idea of how much kick you can expect from a modern 9mm.  It's also my only double/single action semi-auto, so it will help you get familiar with that platform.

Ruger Mark I Competition - This is my "training/fun" pistol chambered in .22LR.  It's definitely not a carry gun, but you can shoot it all day with $5 in ammo and it's a real tack driver.  It has a competition bull barrel and staged trigger, so it's incredibly accurate with the right ammo.  I use it mostly for a "first time" gun, especially when training the ladies.  It's fairly quiet and has absolutely no recoil, so that's a definite plus around trigger-shy girls.

I'm hoping to be the proud new owner of a Kahr P9 within the next three months, so that will be another option.  It's a smaller 9mm double-action semi-auto that's intended for CCW, and it will become my main concealed carry pistol during the spring/summer/fall seasons.  This will also be available for shooting once I pick it up.

For what its worth, here's an ammo price breakdown:

.40S&W 155gr FMJ - 100rds @ $27.50 = $0.28 each.
.38 Special - I have no idea, but it's probably the same as .40.
9mm 115gr FMJ - 100rds @ $24.00 = $0.24 each.
.22LR Soft Nose - 500rds @ $11.00 = $0.03 each.

If you're looking for tactical training, it's definitely pricey, but I can give you the names and addresses of some of the more popular outfits.

If you're looking for CCW training, I've got several local recommendations, including the company I went through to get my CCW.  They range in price from $80 to $150 and offer a variety of perks and benefits.

-b0b
(.../ramble.)

Stewie, would it be alright if I copied our private message conversation to this thread?  It might provide some useful insight for others that may be considering the pursuit of a CCW permit.

-b0b
(...thought he should probably ask first.)

What good would it do to post the conversation you had with pat about being "post op"?

spanky wrote on Feb 1^st, 2008 at 8:17am:

What good would it do to post the conversation you had with pat about being "post op"?

We just want to give you some additional options for your "little problem."

-b0b
(...your mother did ask nicely, after all.)

Ya...the only reason I PMed it to you was because I didn't think anyone would really care to read it on the boards so I didn't want to clutter up the forum.  But it's pretty funny that Stick posted a topic on it the day after I PMed you.

I have another question actually.  What is MI's law on open carry?  Is it only handguns or nothing or can I carry around a shotgun/automatic weapon?

X
(Misses the days of the old West...when you could actually be free)

Quote:

We just want to give you some additional options for your "little problem."

Whoa whoa hey...whoa, just because it is small doesn't mean I want to cut it off.

Besides, the only reason your vag is so gapping is the amount of sand you keep in it.

It's like throwing a hot dog down a hallway

giggity

X wrote on Feb 1^st, 2008 at 8:40am:

I have another question actually.  What is MI's law on open carry?  Is it only handguns or nothing or can I carry around a shotgun/automatic weapon?

In Michigan, open carry is perfectly legal, although extremely rare.  Most police officers have no idea that open carry is legal, and the average citizen is even less informed.

The catch in Michigan's open carry law is that you can't get in a vehicle while carrying openly.  Michigan considers a firearm in a vehicle to be concealed regardless of how you're carrying it.  As such, you either need to make the gun transport-ready (locked in a case in the trunk, ammo stored separately) every time you get in a vehicle, or you have to get your CCW.  It makes open carry a real pain in the butt.

If you carry openly in public, expect to get harassed by property owners, random strangers, and the police.  Again, most of them have no idea that open carry is legal, and they'll call 911 to report "a wacko with a gun."  There are a couple forums dedicated to open carry issues, and they routinely have stories about people getting harassed for open carry, even in gun-friendly states.  Occasionally, someone even gets charged with "Disturbing the Peace," "Inciting Civil Unrest," or some other BS charge.  I've never heard of a conviction, though.  It's usually just a cop pulling a power trip on a "citizen" that has the balls to exercise their rights.

Check out OpenCarry.org for a map of states that allow open carry and what their specific laws are.

There are a couple of places where open carry is banned in Michigan.  I've pasted the relevant law below...


Quote:

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution. (b) A church or other house of religious worship. (c) A court. (d) A theatre. (e) A sports arena. (f) A day care center. (g) A hospital. (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following: (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity. (b) A peace officer. (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

You can also find a lot of content at two of the bigger Michigan gun forums, Michigan Gun Owners and Michigan Coalition for the Rights of Gun Owners.

-b0b
(...hopes this was helpful.)

That is some helpful info there.  I think the springfield XDs are pretty hot guns right now.  I also looked at their Springfield M1A, its a .308, now will that gun kick like a horse?

The amount of recoil ultimately depends on which model you get, but the answer will generally be "not really."  The heavier the gun, the lighter the recoil, so the short-barreled SOCOM model will have a heavier recoil than the full sized M1A.

For what its worth, I'd love to have a SOCOM some day.  They are dead sexy.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/SOCOM.jpg

Of course, I'd rather have a Dragunov PSL chambered in the similarly-sized 7.62x54R, but that's an entirely different weapon platform...

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Dragunov.jpg

I've got plenty of battle rifles, but I don't really have a decent long-range sniping platform.  The Dragunov is exactly that...

-b0b
(...wants to be able to tag and bag zombies at 600+ yards.)

Ooo the Dragunov is the same weapon Marla uses in Max Payne 2 - The Fall Of Max Payne.  Powerful yet the sites suck for the most part.

X

Iron sights, or the scope?

-b0b
(...calls bull.)

The Scope

Quote:

The PSO-1 sight (at a total length of 375 mm with a lens cover and sun shade, 4x magnification and 6° field of view) mounts to a proprietary side rail mount.  The PSO-1 scope includes a variety of features, such as a Bullet Drop Compensation (BDC) elevation adjustment knob, an illuminated range-finder grid and reticule that enables target acquisition in low light conditions and an infrared charging screen that is used as a passive detection system. The PSO-1 sight enables targets to be engaged at ranges upwards of 1000 m; effective ranges in combat situations have been stated at between 600 to 1300 m, depending on the quality of ammunition and skill of the shooter.  A capable marksman should be able to expect ≤ 2 MOA consistent accuracy with appropriate ammunition.  Several models of the PSO sight are available with varying levels of magnification and alternative aiming reticules. Rifles designated SVDN come equipped with a night sight, such as the NSP-3, NSPU, PGN-1, NSPUM or the Polish passive PCS-6 and can be used to engage targets at night.

That's a snippet from the Wikipedia article for the Dragunov.  The PSO-1 scope is well-known to be a top-notch sniper scope.  The SVD was developed toward the beginning of the Cold War and was released to production in 1963, back when Russia had the world's best snipers and best-funded marksman program.  The SVD platform, the PSO-1 scope, and the 7N1 ammunition were (and are) absolutely top-notch.

For what its worth, I've seen a guy make consistent 1,000-yard shots on a man-sized target using a Dragunov with the PSO-1 scope and Black Hills match ammunition.  Many people claim to able to consistently hit the same target at 1300m (1,421 yards), although I've never personally witnessed it.  Trust me, you're not going to get that kind of accuracy with a subpar scope.  It simply isn't going to happen!

-b0b
(...wants one so bad he can taste it!)

That might be true...but the scope in the game was that useful.

X

Play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. if you want a better digital take on the Dragunov.  Not only is it an excellent game, but the Dragunov gets the credit it truly deserves.

-b0b
(...Chernobyl FTW!)

Its also in CoD4, and its the best sniper in the game, except the Barrett .50 of course.

Yeah, I forgot about it.  That's kinda sad, considering I used it almost exclusively when it was available.  I really need to play some multiplayer, but I'm still working on World in Conflict.

-b0b
(...got a piece of the freakin' Berlin Wall with it, for crying out loud!)

Quote:

(...got a piece of the freakin' Berlin Wall with it, for crying out loud!)

I would guess that you got a random piece of cement.  You really think they would keep random chunks of that wall in a warehouse or what?


/is really jealous

Well, supposedly it is legit.  It even comes with a "Zertifikat" of authenticity.

-b0b
(...really has no clue.)

It's not so hard to believe they gave out real pieces of the Wall...after all the wall was pretty big and thick enough to stop people from crashing through it.  Shoot...even my grandpa has a piece of it.  I know DC Newseum (yes that's what it's called) has a whole panel of it.

X

I didn't say it was completely unpossible.  Just if the company was anything like me...ship over tons of cement and package it or go outside and break up the road outside the factory.  Guess which one would win?


heh, unpossible.

I don't know...that's pretty risky.  If the company were to get caught they could be facing some massive lawsuits..and with the PC gaming market like it is today (stupid pirates ruining it)...I don't think they'd risk it.